KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: rising threats. The country is on edge after a deadly New Year’s Day terror attack that investigators say was inspired by ISIS.
CHRISTOPHER RAIA:
This was an act of terrorism. It was premeditated and an evil act.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Plus: the new majority. As Republicans in Congress prepare to advance Donald Trump’s legislative priorities, I’ll talk to the new Senate Majority Leader, Republican John Thune of South Dakota.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How would you describe your relationship with President-elect Trump right now?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, you know what? We are – it’s evolving.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And: minority report.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
We are here ready to fight for the American people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How will Democrats navigate their new role in the minority? I’ll speak to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York and California Senator Adam Schiff. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Managing Washington Editor Carol Lee, Jonathan Martin of Politico, Symone Sanders Townsend, former chief spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris and March Short, former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. On this first weekend of 2025, the nation is on edge, after deadly New Year’s attacks in New Orleans and Las Vegas. Federal officials are on high alert about potential security threats as Washington prepares for a series of key public events: the certification of the 2024 Election on Monday, President Jimmy Carter’s state funeral on Thursday at the National Cathedral and, in just 15 days, President-elect Trump’s inauguration. President Biden with an emotional message to the victims’ families of that tragedy in Louisiana.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
To all the families of those who were killed, to all those who are injured, to all the people of New Orleans who are grieving today, I want you to know I grieve with you. Our nation grieves with you. We’re going to stand with you as you mourn and as you heal.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
According to the FBI, the New Orleans attacker, a US citizen and Army veteran from Texas who was inspired by ISIS to kill 14 people, had planned to use a transmitter to detonate two explosives he had placed near the site of the Bourbon Street attack. Top law enforcement officials have warned the ongoing war in the Middle East has increased the threat of terror attacks inside the United States.
[BEGIN TAPE]
CHRISTOPHER WRAY:
At a time when the terrorism threat was already elevated, the ongoing war in the Middle East has raised the threat of an attack against Americans inside the United States to a whole ‘nother level.
MERRICK GARLAND:
We have been warning for quite some time now. Both the Justice Department, the FBI and the intelligence community that we are in a heightened threat environment from malign foreign actors, including in particular, ISIS.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
All of this comes as the 119th Congress convened on Friday, narrowly re-electing House Speaker Mike Johnson to lead the razor-thin Republican majority, after he and President-elect Trump persuaded several initial holdouts. I sat down with the first new Senate Republican leader in 18 years, Majority Leader John Thune. Senate Majority Leader Thune, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Thanks, Kristen. Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is great to have you. Unfortunately we have to start on this devastating news out of New Orleans, this terror attack. You have now been briefed. It claimed 14 lives. What is the latest information that you have about the investigation?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, horrible news obviously, and our hearts and prayers go out to all of the victims’ families, those who are still injured. Praying for their recovery. But what a, you know, horrible way to start the new year. And it points to the need to get the answers and to make sure it doesn’t happen again. And I think that as more information comes out and the investigation is more fully completed, I think we’ll have more of those answers. But, you know, clearly it’s a dangerous world. And I think it’s a reminder that we need to be doing everything we can at every level to keep the American people safe.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, you said in your statement after the horrific attack in New Orleans that the threat posed by ISIS, quote, “Is a clear example of why the Senate must get President Trump’s national security team in place as quickly as possible.” As you know, there are Senate Republicans who say they still have questions about the qualifications, about the character of some of President-elect Trump’s picks, from Pete Hegseth to Tulsi Gabbard. As we sit here today, are you prepared to vote yes on all of his nominees?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, we – it’s a process. And what I’ve promised them is a fair process. And so these nominees are going to go through a committee where they’re going to have to answer questions. There will be some hard questions posed. We’re going to do everything we can to ensure that he has the people he wants in place. I think you give great deference and latitude to a president when it comes to people he wants to put into key positions. And national security ones are especially important. But the Senate has a role: advise and consent. And we intend, we have a lot of our senators who take that role very seriously. And so we will make sure that these nominees have a process, a fair process, in which they have an opportunity to make their cases not only to the members of the committee and ultimately to the full Senate but also to the American people. And that’s underway as we speak. But my hope and expectation is that the president will get the people that he wants in place to implement his agenda.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I hear you say there’s a process, but you’re not prepared to say you’re a yes, you’re a rubber stamp on all of these nominees at this point?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, that’s why we have a process. And, you know, I’ve met with them. There are some of them I think that I’ve been really, really impressed by. And I think there are – as they go through the process, there will be opportunities throughout that where members, senators will have opportunities to make sure they’re getting their questions answered. And we’ll see. I mean, I think this is a – again, that’s why we have the checks and balances in our system that we have. But my expectation is, and as the leader of the Senate, that we’re going to get the president his people as quickly as possible in the key positions where he wants them.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about Kash Patel. In his book, as you know, as has been reported, he has a list of 60 people he calls members of the so-called “deep state.” Are you certain that Kash Patel’s priorities would be fighting crime, protecting national security rather than settling political scores?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
I think that he understands what his mission would be if he is successful in getting confirmed to that position at the FBI. The FBI is an agency that I think is in need of reform and needs a good makeover so to speak and probably a good amount of housecleaning when it comes to just the perception the American people have of it. And these institutions that the American people need to have confidence and trust in, I think that confidence and trust has largely eroded. And there’s an opportunity to fix that. I think that’s what – I sat down with, met with him. I think he understands that that’s the mission. And if he’s successful through the nomination process, I hope that he will take very seriously that responsibility and focus on what he can do to make the FBI operate in a way that is protecting the American people and also being accountable to the same.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When you say you think he does understand the mission, does that mean, yes, you do think he will put national security ahead of settling political scores?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, you know, in my conversations with him, and I’ve not talked a lot about the meetings that I’ve had, but I felt like he fully understood, I think, what is expected and I think what the president wants out of the agency. And, yeah, I feel confident that he gets what his job is going to be if he gets over there. And I think that as he goes through the process, more members will have an opportunity to ask the questions of him. But I think, at least based on my conversations with him, I felt very good about that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you a yes on Kash Patel?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, I’m not – I haven’t been advertising or disclosing my positions on individual nominees at this point just yet. But my job is to make sure they get a fair process, and so I intend to do that. And I think that’s underway.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk about the Republicans’ agenda.
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When I spoke with President-elect Donald Trump, he said that his mass deportation plan was his top priority. He wants to deport everyone who is here illegally. Do you support that plan to deport everyone who is here illegally?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, I think there are certain – certainly there are categories, people who’ve committed crimes. There are over a million people that the current administration had targeted for deportation. And so I think that we have to take seriously the fact that there are a lot of people in this country today, over 10 million, who’ve come in just in the last four years under this administration’s policies, many of whom are not here for good reasons. I mean, we know we’ve apprehended almost 300 people at the southern border that are on the terrorist watch list. And you’ve got criminals, and cartel members, and gang members, and all of the above. So I think that as we think about what those next steps are, the first thing is securing that border, and making sure that we change the incentive structure so people aren’t incentivized to come here illegally, which they have been for the past four years, and that we do everything to ensure that the border personnel, the ICE agents and border agents, have the resources that they need to do their job. Now some of that means physical barriers. Some of it means technological barriers, et cetera. And those are all going to require resources. And then some of it’s going to require deportation of certain people who are here illegally. How that gets translated into actual policy and action will be a function of the new border czar and Homeland Security Department secretary, who will be our Governor Kristi Noem.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And of course it’s incredibly complicated. You’d need 24 more times ICE detention capacity just to deport 1 million people in one year, not to mention more agents, more judges, more planes for deportation. In 2016 —
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– you actually said deporting everyone here illegally wasn’t realistic. Have you changed your mind about that? Do you think it’s realistic?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, I think you got – again, I think you start and this is going to be, obviously, a process. And it’s going to take resources, obviously, to get people, you know, to leave the country. We’re going to have to make sure the administration has the resources they need to enable them to do that. Is it realistic to deport everybody? I mean, there’s a lot of people in this country who are here illegally. But I think we have I — there have identified already– and, like I said, anybody who has committed a crime in this country clearly out to be on that list. And there are a bunch of folks, over a million, 1.4 million I think, on the current administration’s list of people that need to be deported. So start with that, and then we’ll go from there and figure it out. But I think that the administration when they take office, these are decisions, obviously, they’re going to have to make. And we want to work with them to ensure that we have a safe and secure southern border where people don’t have the incentive structure they have today, which is essentially, “Come to this country, and we will wave you in.” People have to understand that we are a nation of immigrants, but we are first and foremost a nation of laws, and you’ve got to follow the law.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk about tax cuts. President-elect Trump has proposed a slew of tax cuts, extending the 2017 tax cuts, as well as further slashing the corporate rate, eliminating taxes on tips. The estimated price for everything he’s proposing would exceed some $9 trillion. Are you comfortable adding $9 trillion to the national debt?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, I think you have to, first off, look at what happens if we don’t act by the end of the year, and that’s a $4 trillion tax increase on the American people, because that’s essentially what you’re talking about if we don’t extend the current, the 2017 tax law. The president has had some other suggestions and ideas with respect to, you know, that he would like to do in the area of tax reform. And we’re – we’ll take those into consideration. But I think that the – we intend to ensure that we don’t have a $4 trillion tax increase on the American people by December 31 of this year. And in order to do that, we’ve got to act collectively, House, Senate, and White House, to extend the 2017 tax cuts. Now in doing that, I believe there will also be a robust conversation about whether we can find offsets and achieve reductions in spending that would help offset some of that. But then also you’ve got to understand too that tax policy is directly connected to economic growth. And the – we’ve been told by all the experts, the Joint Committee on Taxation, Congressional Budget Office, that for every 1% increase in GDP, you generate about $3 trillion in additional tax revenue. Many of the tax provisions that are in law today that will be extended will have a very positive impact on growth in the economy. I’m somebody who believes in growth. With growth, you get better-paying jobs, but you also generate more tax revenue. And I think that’s something that isn’t fully contemplated or considered when people talk about deficit numbers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You’ve said that the size of the national debt is actually a national security threat. You’re talking about the 2017 tax cuts, but when you lump all of these other potential tax cuts onto it, it just balloons the debt. How would you pay for that? I hear you expressing some skepticism that the whole entire package could get done.
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, I mean, I think that you start with extending existing tax policy. And that’s current – that is current policy. You know, some people, depending on which scorekeepers you use, will say, “Well, yes, this is going to contribute to deficits down the road.” But the fact of the matter is this is the law today, and what you’re doing is essentially extending that —
KRISTEN WELKER:
So it would all be paid for by offsets?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, not perhaps all of it. But what I’m telling you is a combination of growth, a combination of offsets, and an expectation, I think, that if you want to avoid a $4 trillion tax increase, you’re going to have to take some steps to extend the current tax policy. When you do that, I think you get outcomes that are good for the economy. And when the economy is growing, expanding, and creating better-paying jobs, people are making money, they’re taking realizations, they’re paying taxes. Tax revenues go up. And that was demonstrated and proven in 2017 with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Monday marks four years since January 6th, since the attack on the Capitol. You were here that day. You’ve been in this building for more than 20 years. In my interview with him, President-elect Trump said he plans to pardon those who attacked the Capitol on that day and potentially even some of those who pleaded guilty to assaulting police officers. Do you support that? Pardoning people who attacked police officers, who stormed the Capitol that day?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, I mean, as we’ve discovered under the Biden administration, the pardon authority is a very broad one. I mean, he’s taken it to a whole new level. That’s ultimately going to be a decision that President Trump is going to have to make. And, you know, what I’m focused on is the future and not looking in the rearview mirror but looking in the windshield and what we have to do. I think you learn from the past, you remember the past, but you live in the present and the future. And right now we have an agenda which consists of a stronger, more robust economy, energy dominance, rebuilding our national security, and securing our border. Those are things that we want to get done which I think the American people voted on in November and gave President Trump a very decisive victory. And I think the expectation is that we’re going to work with him to accomplish that agenda.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As the majority leader in the Senate, though, what message do you think it would send to give pardons to people who pleaded guilty to attacking police officers, who stormed this building four years ago?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, look, I mean, again, it’s ultimately going to be a decision that the President of the United States — the pardon authority exists with him. My job right now is to get – help the president get the people into the positions that he wants to implement his agenda and then work constructively with him, with the House of Representatives, on an agenda that we think is what the American people voted for. And that, you know, – you can’t, you can’t be looking in the rearview mirror to do that. That’s four years ago. I think the American people are living in the present, and I think us, they want the work that we’re doing to be done with an eye toward what we can do and improve their lives today.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Quick little lightning round if I could. President-elect Trump told me he is open to doing a deal with Democrats to protect Dreamers, those who were brought here illegally as children. Do you commit to working with Democrats to try to get a deal on the Dreamers?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, if they – if the President of the United States – he is obviously going to lead on a lot of this policy with respect to the border. But that is an issue that I think on which there could be some bipartisan cooperation. The – in the past at least, there have been conversations around if you get the right things with respect to border security, that might be part of a conversation where you could get a package.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I just finally, big picture, want to ask you: You endorsed Tim Scott during the Republican primary. You ultimately backed Mr. Trump. How would you describe your relationship with President-elect Trump right now?
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Well, you know what? We are– it’s evolving, and we have a relationship I think where we understand what each other wants to accomplish. And what I’ve said before is, you know, that we have – there is an alignment of incentives. We want to get to the same destination. I want a lot of same things– I want to accomplish the same things that he does. And I think that’s a powerful combination. And we’re going to continue to build on that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senate Majority Leader John Thune. Thank you so much for your time.
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
Thanks, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is the Senate minority leader, Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer of New York. Leader Schumer, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
Kristen, good to be back. And happy new year to you and your family and to all of America.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Oh, happy new year to you. Thank you so much for being here on this first Sunday of the new year. I do want to start off by getting your insights into the attack in New Orleans. As you know, a lot of families are sitting at home. They feel afraid. They feel on edge. There are a lot of big events coming up from the inauguration to the Super Bowl, which is going to be in New Orleans. What are the security gaps that you think need to be addressed?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
Well, first I want to express my condolences to the families who are in mourning for the loved ones who were lost in New Orleans. We grieve for them. And also, you know, the – the former soldier, a member of the Armed Forces who had PTSD and committed suicide in front of the Las Vegas hotel, showed I think that we need to do more for our veterans who have PTSD and other things there. As for security, the bottom line is that I believe the authorities are on full alert in terms of security. Look, terrorism is a greater threat here in America. We have ISIS. We have other groups. The terrorist who rammed his car and killed so many people was a professed member of ISIS. Now, we do not know – we know that he acted alone. We don’t know if he – ISIS directed him to do it. They’re still investigating. But we need to be very, very vigilant. And so I sent a letter yesterday to John Thune suggesting we have an all-senators briefing this week on the preparations for the big events that are coming up and for the ability to ask questions of our law enforcement. I believe they are on top of this. But having an all-senators hearing, giving us a chance to answer questions and them to reply is a good thing. So, I’m hopeful Senator Thune and I can work that out and get it done this week.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, I know that you’re going to continue to watch that closely. I do want to turn to how you see Democrats’ role in this new Congress. Your fellow Democratic congressman colleague Tom Suozzi said the party needs to try a different approach when it comes to dealing with President-elect Trump. Let me read you a little bit of what he had to say. He said, “I know my party will be tempted to hold fast against Mr. Trump at every turn. That would be a mistake. Only by working together to find compromise on parts of the president-elect’s agenda can we make progress for Americans.” Do you agree with Congressman Suozzi that Democrats need a new approach toward President-elect Trump?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
Well, look, I think it’s clear that whenever we can get things done in a bipartisan way, we try to do it. And that’s the best way to go. It creates programs that are long-lasting and very popular. So back in 2021-22, when we had the most successful session of the Senate, of the Congress in decades, seven of the eight major bills were done in a bipartisan way. So, we always look for bipartisan cooperation and would welcome the ability. On the other hand, when there are things that we can’t agree with – for instance, tax breaks for the wealthiest of Americans paid for, as many Republicans have suggested, by cuts in Social Security and in Medicare and making it harder for new families to buy their first home – they’re going to have to go through us. We’re going to oppose those kinds of things very, very rigorously. So, I think we can – we will be bipartisan when we can. But also when they are trying to do things, our Republican colleagues, that are so bad for working people, we’ll oppose them.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leader Schumer, I’m curious where you see those potential areas. In my interview with President-elect Trump, he said he’s open to potentially getting a deal for dreamers, those who were brought to the country illegally as children, to be able to stay here permanently. Do you think that that is feasible? You heard Leader Thune say, yes, he thinks there are some areas of bipartisanship there. Do you think a deal on dreamers is possible?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
Well, we’d love to do that. Our party has been strongly fighting for the dreamers for a decade. We’ve been blocked by our colleagues on the other side of the aisle. If there’s going to be a change and we can get some help – look, these are people, they were little tiny children when they were brought over the border. Many of them have been here for decades. Some have served in the Armed Forces. Many of them are working very productively and have families. And yes, if we can find a solution so that the dreamers could stay here, we’d welcome it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, you heard Leader Thune in terms of President-elect Trump’s Cabinet say that the Senate would work, quote, “as quickly as possible to get his Cabinet picks in place.” And basically saying that if his national security picks are not in place quickly, that could undermine the nation’s normal security. Do you agree with Leader Thune there?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
Look, we’ve asked for three things that are reasonable. First, that there be thorough FBI background checks of every one of the nominees at the Cabinet level. Second, that there be hearings where members have the opportunity to fully ask the questions that they want answered. And then third, there be a vote. That’s been the tradition here under Democratic and Republican presidents. It’s been advice and consent. And look, these – any American who applies for a job has to undergo a background check, has to answer questions that the potential employer asks him or her. So, of course we should do those things, and I hope we will. The bottom line is these positions are really important, as Senator Thune said, for our national security. And the American people should have the ability to know who is being nominated and what – what their criteria are.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you a yes right now?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
What their characteristics are.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you a yes right now on any of these picks?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
No, I’m waiting for this process, this reasonable process that we’ve asked for, to unfold.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk –
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
Background checks, thorough background checks, hearings and votes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let’s talk now about the future of the Democratic Party. Democrats have said this is a real reckoning after losing the White House, the Senate, not winning back the House. Here’s what Democratic strategist James Carville had to say. He wrote, quote, “We lost for one very simple reason. It was, it is, and it will always be the economy, stupid.” Do you agree? What do you think was the root cause of Democrats’ across-the-board loss?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
No, look, I told my caucus and I – I’ll say it here too. We should regard this election, certainly it was a loss, but it’s also a challenge. And we did some things right against very severe headwinds. We kept four of those seven contested Democratic seats. But we did some things wrong. And we have to look in the mirror and see what we did wrong. And then there’s some things we didn’t do that we should have done. One of the things we have to do is we must focus on the working families of America. We believe in them, and we passed all kinds of legislation that helped them: the Infrastructure Bill, which made our economy stronger and employed lots of people. The CHIP hubs where we’re now having CHIP hubs in places to do new manufacturing and new research that were left out before: Missoula, Montana, Bloomington, Indiana. The bill lowering the cost of prescription drugs. As of January 1st, 10 of the most popular prescription drugs will be greatly lowered because we finally allowed under our leadership the drug companies, we forced them to negotiate with Medicare. So, we did a lot of good things. But all too often, Kristen, we talked about the mechanics of the legislation and the details of the legislation. And we really didn’t show the kind of empathy and concern to average – or show enough of it – to average working families who didn’t realize how much we had done and how much we care for them. So, what we’re going to do is spend a lot of time talking to working families, showing them how much we care about them, and not just talk about legislation but talk about the conditions that have made so many working families worried about their futures. And that’s going to be a significant change.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And obviously –
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
I think it will – it will make a difference.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Obviously, there has been a lot of focus on President Biden’s role in this. You were obviously in close contact with President Biden well before the public tuned into that debate that ultimately led to him stepping down. I want to play you a little bit of something you said last year. Take a look.
[START TAPE]
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
I talk to President Biden, you know, regularly, sometimes several times in a week, or usually several times in a week. His mental acuity is great. It’s fine. It’s as good as it’s been over the years. All this right-wing propaganda that his mental acuity has declined is wrong.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leader Schumer, what do you say to Americans who feel as though you and other top Democrats misled them about President Biden’s mental acuity?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
No. Look, we didn’t. And let’s – let’s look – let’s look at President Biden. He’s had an amazing record. The legislation we passed, one of the most significant groups of legislation since the New Deal – since Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society, putting in 235 judges, a record. And he’s a patriot. He’s a great guy. And when he stepped down, he did it on his own because he thought it was better not only for the Democratic Party, for America. We should all salute him. We should all salute him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you feel, as we have this conversation today, that President Biden could serve another four years, had he stayed in the race and potentially won?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
Well, I’m not going to speculate. As I said, I think his record is a stellar one. And he’ll go down in history as a really outstanding president.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Before I let you go, Leader Schumer, in two weeks you will be the highest-ranking Democratic serving in Washington. Do you believe you will be the leader of the Democratic Party?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
Look, I think we have a lot of great leaders in our party. We have a great bench of people coming up. And I am really optimistic about the future of the Democratic Party in the future. As I said, there are certain adjustments we have to make. We’re going to do those. And I think people are going to realize that the Democratic Party is the party of working families, of working people. We’re doing more for them. We’re going to show them that some of these Republican things like tax cuts for the very wealthy individuals, which were – they – they did it in 2017, and they lost the election in 2018. They haven’t learned. But we’re going to hold their feet to the fire when they do things that hurt working people. We’re going to stand with the working families of America. And that’s going to bode very well for us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. Thank you so much. I hope you’ll come back again –
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– soon. Really appreciate talking to you this morning. And when we come back, Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. As we approach Monday’s anniversary of the January 6th attacks, President Biden this past week awarded the country’s second-highest civilian award, the Presidential Citizens Medal, to the leaders of the January 6th Committee, former Congresswoman Liz Cheney and Congressman Bennie Thompson. And Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California, who is another member of that committee, joins me now. Senator Schiff, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Great to have you here. Happy New Year. Thank you for being here.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Happy New Year.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Tomorrow, as we just said, does mark the anniversary of the January 6th attacks. And in my interview with President-elect Trump, he said that he does plan to pardon those who attacked the Capitol, potentially even those who pleaded guilty of their crimes. You heard Leader Thune say that’s ultimately a decision for the president to make. How do you respond to that?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, first of all, that day when we peacefully transferred power, historically, peacefully transferred power is a real solemn occasion, I think for the whole country. But it has another meaning now, that we had this terrible violent attack four years ago. For those of us that were there in the Capitol it’s going to be, I think, quite an emotional experience to be back in that environment on that day. I invited Daniel Hodges, one of the Metropolitan police officers who was being crushed in that revolving door to remind people of what that day was really like, given all the revisionist history around it. But if the president goes forward with pardoning vast numbers of people involved in that violence, he will begin his new administration the way he ended his last administration. And that is by celebrating violence against our democracy. I think that would be a terrible start, send a terrible message about our democracy, about lawlessness, about people who attacked police officers. It’d be exactly the wrong message and the wrong way to start out an administration.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about something else the President-elect said to me. He said that he believes everyone who was on the committee should go to jail. That includes you. Senator Schiff, are you bracing to be targeted by the president-elect, by his incoming administration?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
You know what? I don’t think any of us really know what he means by any of that. Whether he’s serious about it or whether it’s his kind of Trumpian hyperbole, or what it is. All of us on the committee, I think, are very proud of the work that we did. We stand behind it. I’m glad to see President Biden acknowledge the role of our Chairman Bennie Thompson and Liz Cheney. Adam Kinzinger, I think also, as a Republican, showed great courage. And the witnesses that came before the committee were so powerful because they were Republicans, because they put the country first. So who knows what the president means? I guess we’ll find out. But we stand behind our work.
KRISTEN WELKER:
There’s been a lot of talk about whether President Biden should issue preemptive pardons to those who served on the committee. You’ve been very public about saying you don’t want a preemptive pardon. I wonder, Senator, have you conveyed that directly to the president himself, to his administration?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Not directly to the president, but I have conveyed it to the administration. And the concern that I have, which is what I conveyed, is the precedent that it would set, that you have an outgoing president giving a broad group of pardons to members of his party or others. Because I think the precedent could be abused. Now, people have rightly pointed out Donald Trump may abuse that precedent regardless. But the idea that each administration hereafter gives broad pardons to people who worked in the administration or aligned with the administration, I don’t think that’s a road we want to go down. But the president will do what the president does. And if he goes forward I’m sure it will be responding to these baseless arguments of Donald Trump and the threats to retaliate against people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We learned this week that sentencing will be scheduled for President-elect Trump in that hush money case. The judge has said he’s not going to seek jail time. That sentencing is going to happen a little bit later on this week. Do you agree with that decision, not to seek jail time?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
What I’ve always said about what the judge should do vis-a-vis sentencing, and frankly the whole process of that case, is he should treat Donald Trump as he would any other criminal defendant charged with like offenses. So if the judge concluded that someone else charged with a similar offense, of fraudulent business records to conceal a campaign finance violation, and that would lead to no jail time, then he should get no jail time. But I particularly concur with his decision to go forward with the sentencing. The federal justice system really let down the country. The Supreme Court certainly did. It didn’t timely investigate and prosecute the offenses around January 6th. I think New York has demonstrated, frankly, how the justice system ought to operate. No one should be above the law.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So much of your time in Congress was spent basically conducting oversight over then President Trump for a range of different reasons. The Russia investigation, Ukraine, and then January 6th. Given that the two federal cases, as you just referenced, have been dropped for now, how focused as a senator will you be on overseeing oversight of Donald Trump’s actions?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, a lot of that will depend on what the president’s actions are. Does he take a different approach in the second administration, or does he, once again, try to abuse the powers of his office?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will you continue to focus on his election interference?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, my focus is going to be on getting things done for the people of California and the country, and particularly on the economy. I know I’m going to have to face very early on these tax cuts for rich people and for large corporations. What the voters in California elected me to do was to try to bring down the cost of living, the cost of housing, the cost of child care. Not to give tax breaks to very wealthy people or corporations. So my focus is on the economy. You know, to your question earlier about James Carville, I think James Carville was right. I think it is still about the economy. I think we lost the argument on the economy. We need to win that argument. We need to persuade the American people, once again, that we are focused, first and foremost, on delivering for them. And that means helping them with their small businesses, helping them pay their rent or their mortgage. That’s going to be my first priority. But you know, if the president is trying to take away the rights and freedoms of the American people or abusing his office, I’m certainly going to stand up and defend our country and our Constitution.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk quickly about the president-elect’s cabinet picks. Kash Patel for FBI director. That comes against the backdrop of this latest terror attack in New Orleans. You, of course, serve on the judiciary committee. If Kash Patel is confirmed, will you be able to work with him? You’ve been quite critical of him.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, first of all, Kash Patel should not be confirmed. And I think the terrorist attack in New Orleans, and my heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones in that attack, just underscores again the importance of having someone directing the FBI that has experience, that has judgment, that has character, that will prioritize defending the country against the violence we saw in New Orleans or the violence we saw on January 6th. Not someone whose top priority is political vendettas, who believes in deep-state conspiracy thinking, not someone who is as unqualified as Kash Patel. So Kash Patel’s an easy one. He should not be confirmed. The others, you know, some…look, Marco Rubio, I think well-qualified, several of the other nominees. Again, we should follow that regular process that the majority leader has laid out. But that one should be an easy one.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Adam Schiff, thank you so much for being here in person. We really appreciate it.
SENATOR ADAM SCHIFF:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, look forward to hopefully talking to you again soon. When we come back, as the nation mourns the death of former President Jimmy Carter, we look back at his message to a divided country. Our Meet the Press minute is next. Stay with us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Former President Jimmy Carter – the longest-living president in US history – is lying in repose in the Carter Center in Atlanta after he passed away last Sunday, nearly two years after being admitted into hospice care. Jimmy Carter joined this broadcast eleven times. In 1976, he talked about wanting to bridge the country’s divides just days before becoming the Democratic nominee in his first run for president:
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. GOV. JIMMY CARTER:
I think the American people resent being put in boxes, and I have always avoided that myself. Obviously, since the beginning of this calendar year, as the Iowa Caucus approached, I have been heavily covered by the news media, and it is not possible for me to make a different statement in Iowa than the one I make in New Hampshire or Florida. I think those sharp differences that used to exist between the liberal and conservative elements of our society have pretty well been removed, so when I say I am going to manage the government in a tough, competent, businesslike way and also deal with the sensitive needs of our people on human rights, civil rights, good environmental quality, I don’t believe there is as much alienation of groups as there was before.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Carter was 100 years old.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News Managing Washington Editor Carol Lee, Jonathan Martin, Politics Bureau Chief and Senior Political Columnist for Politico, Symone Sanders Townsend, former chief spokesperson to Vice President Harris and co-host of The Weekend, and Marc Short, former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence. Thanks to all of you for being here on a very busy Sunday. Carol, let me kick it off with you. You heard Senate Majority Leader John Thune say that his relationship with President-elect Trump is evolving. I thought it was a fascinating answer, and it kind of underscores I think what we’re all going to be watching for, how complicated is it for the Trump agenda to get passed.
CAROL LEE:
That’s right. And he essentially described this as a business relationship, saying that they have shared goals when it comes to achieving the policy agenda. And that’s what’s going to bind them. But whether they can achieve those goals is really what matters. And Trump has set very high expectations with the American people that he’s going to get a lot done really fast with a Republican Senate, House, and White House. And what you heard from Thune was a little more measured, a little more pragmatism about what is actually going to be possible. And so, you know, how this relationship evolves is really going to depend on whether in Trump’s view Thune is delivering for him. And if he is not, then you’re going to see the president-elect looking to blame someone, and Thune may find himself on the receiving end of that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Jonathan, talk about high expectations. President-elect Trump has conveyed to the new House speaker he wants to get border, taxes, trade done all in one big bill. And it all comes after House Speaker Mike Johnson barely won the gavel back.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
It’s all in a day’s work, Kristen. Yeah, exactly. Look, Donald Trump has not been known to accept blame for, well, anything at all, and the clock is running. And I think there’s a huge challenge ahead for John Thune but especially Mike Johnson because of the nature of the House majority and because of the coalition that Johnson is trying to juggle in the House. Look, Donald Trump is going to want victories and want victories fast. And to John Thune’s credit, that’s why I think Thune wanted to do two big bills because he wanted to get Trump a big victory first on the border and on energy and on defense spending. But I think Trump has come to the conclusion, “These guys in Congress can only do one big bill and that’s what we’re going to have to do.” But when you do that, you deny Trump a fast early win and that sets up a difficult spring and summer I think for Johnson and Thune, Johnson especially, because Trump’s going to get really impatient. “Where’s my bill?”
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes, it’s a big, big test. Marc, you understand legislative affairs better than most. I mean, can this get done, this big, massive bill that Trump –
MARC SHORT:
No –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– wants?
MARC SHORT:
– I hate agreeing with J. Mart, but, yes, I think he got it right. It is –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
It’s okay, Marc –
MARC SHORT:
– going to create an expectation that’s difficult. I think there’s going to be pressure on Thune in the beginning with the nominations to get confirmed, but getting two budget reconciliation bills done was always impossible and I think Speaker Johnson was right to encourage the president to go to one bill. But that bill’s going to take a long time to put together. And in the meantime, this spring you’re going to have a debt ceiling fight, you’re going to have another continuing resolution. They should have passed one continuing resolution for the entire year. Pushing off just to March creates an enormous struggle for Speaker Johnson. And, as Johnson said, I think there’s going to be a lot of pressure if that bill fails to fund the government that then the president’s going to blame Speaker Johnson for that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Sure is a big first test. Symone, let’s talk about the Democrats. I thought the conversation with Leader Schumer was fascinating. I asked him if he thought President Biden could serve another four years. He kind of pivoted, didn’t answer that directly. There’s obviously a lot of soul searching going on right now in the Democratic Party. What did you make of what we heard from Leader Schumer?
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
Well, I was very surprised that when you asked the question about mental acuity he didn’t more forcefully push back. The question on the table is, “Is – is the president all the way there?” And the answer is unequivocally yes. Now, people can say that you feel as though President Biden might be a little too old to do the job, but he is doing the job. And his mental acuity is there. So, I think that there’s a conflation of two things here: his mental capacity and serving another four years as old as he is. But those are two separate things in my opinion. And, look, these people that have known Joe Biden their entire political lives, I know Joe Biden is like, “Can you all just please defend me a little more?”
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Well, it’s not worth defending him though because at every turn the last year and a half he has taken the path of the most indulgent turn for himself rather than the good of the party by running again, by pardoning his son, and now, frankly, by some of these choices for Medal of Freedom, going to Rome for one last trip. He’s not exiting in a way that I think reflects well on his party. And Democrats are deeply, deeply unhappy about it, and they should be frankly –
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
I would just say there’s one thing about the president –
MARC SHORT:
– And I think it hurt Democrats – it hurt Democrats in November to try to tell the American people something they could see with their own eyes wasn’t true.
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
But it’s not true that the president doesn’t have the mental acuity.
MARC SHORT:
Of course it is, Symone. The American people saw that for themselves in debate –
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
What are you saying? He can at least put a sentence together. The president–
MARC SHORT:
Are you sure –
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
–elect is the one I am concerned about. Yes, because I recently spoke to the president. But let me just say this thing about the Democrats. With friends like these, okay, the Democratic friends that Joe Biden has had, I do think that he understands the nature of where things are going, which is why he pardoned his son because the president-elect has been very clear about his ire and what he wants to do to his son. So, after everything Joe Biden has done do you really expect him to go out on the high note for his last surviving son because Chuck Schumer would like it to be so?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk about the note he’s going to go out on. You have new reporting, Carol, he’s going to be giving two major speeches.
CAROL LEE:
He is. He’s not going to be taking questions from the press in a press conference, as far as we know so far –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Which is extraordinary.
CAROL LEE:
– But he is delivering two different speeches, first one –
KRISTEN WELKER:
It’s a break with tradition–
JONATHAN MARTIN:
– Yeah, yeah.
CAROL LEE:
–on foreign policy, which is his wheelhouse. He’s going to talk about America’s alliances, the importance of that. The second one, a farewell address where he’ll have a message for the American people about the future, talk about his legacy. But really it’s an opportunity for him to have one final moment on the national stage before he exits after more than 50 years in public office –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
But the fact that he’s not conducting interviews or taking questions from the press as he leaves office –
CAROL LEE:
Is a big shift –
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
I agree with that –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
– is a huge shift. And also, after he turned the White House over to Donald Trump by running again at age 82 and there’s no accountability for it of any kind? I think it’s remarkable.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Marc, let me shift gears a little bit and talk about the anniversary tomorrow, January 6th. You were in the Capitol on that day. Obviously, I’m sure the day comes with a lot of thoughts, emotions for you. And it does come as we’re watching and waiting to see if President-elect Trump does decide to move forward with what he said, that he’s going to pardon those who attacked the Capitol on day one he told me in my interview with him.
MARC SHORT:
I expect that he will. I think he’s been pretty clear that that’s his intention. I think that President Trump has a remarkable ability to kind of tell a narrative and get American people to want to follow that narrative. I think it’s important to remember that on the day of January 6th, he was so disturbed by the events that he referred to them as Antifa protesters. Over the course of history, last few years, they now became American patriots. And I think that it’s important to remember that many of the people who are incarcerated for assaulting police were put there by Trump-appointed judges who heard the evidence. And so I expect that he will go forward with pardons. I think there are probably some people who got caught up in the Capitol and things they shouldn’t have been caught up in. But to see a Republican president pardon people who physically assaulted police officers I think is an enormous departure from Republicans’ positions on law and order.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And a lot of them pleaded guilty to that as well. It’s a really good point. Symone, what are you going to be watching for? And I talked to Senator Schiff about oversight. How much is he going to be focused on oversight versus actually trying to govern, potential work across the aisle?
SYMONE SANDERS TOWNSEND:
Look, I think Democrats in the Senate and the House, they want to find ways to govern because they want wins so that they too can potentially take back power in the midterm election. However, I think the reality of the situation is, is that some of the things they just won’t be able to come together on when it comes to the House specifically because of Mike Johnson’s aggressive way of wanting to take up Donald Trump’s agenda.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, you guys. Great conversation, very spirited, thank you so much, to kick off the new year. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We’ll be back next week because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet The Press.
